Quote I have a question for 94 Big Bore XTR 375 Win owners. I've got one with a serial number that is prefaced with the letters BB (BB044XXX).
I called Winchester (1-800-975-5237) to find out more about the serial number and managed to talk to their historian. He claimed that records for that period were destroyed in a fire, but from memory he said my rifle was probably made in 1980.
This is a very nice and like new Winchester Model 94 AE in.44 Rem Mag. The blue steel looks like new and is free from any blemishes or dings. Minty Winchester Model 94 XTR, caliber.30-30. Serial number dates to 1980. This variation of the iconic Model 94 lever action features a deluxe walnut stock with checkering and sling swivel.
The guy seemed to know his Winchester history. My question is - how long were the serial numbers prefaced with 'BB'? The Big Bores were introduced in 1978 and made unchanged until 1983 when the '94 XTR Angle Eject' was introduced. I'm guessing that the BB was dropped with the AE Big Bore models, but it's just a guess.
Any info you may have about the BB numbers would be appreciated. Quote Timber, I hijacked your post to start this off.
Somwhere on this forum there is a thread by someone who was trying to start a data base of known Big Bore serial numbers and configuration. Seems like a good idea to me. Was this Robert Anderson? Any way, my top eject 375 is s/n BB 040141 just to start things off! I have encountered BB016725, BB020698, BB035884, BB041567, BB043XXX at various auctions and in various postings. These are all top eject low comb stocks. An unusual configuration that has been reported but I have not seen pictures to verify is a angle eject s/n AE16XXX that is not drilled and tapped for a scope mount.
This rifle is a.375. I would like to know the approximate s/n range where the monte carlo stock stopped. My.307 is a pre-safety low stock model, its s/n is 5588015. I think this rifle is pretty early in the low stock - pre-safety group but have no way to prove it. If you feel better giving just the first three s/n's thats fine, it gets us close to the series. I would like to hear about an angle eject that is a post AE prefix low stock pre-safety with a lower serial than mine. Just to get a rough s/n range.
Whoever was trying to develop the data base - how are you coming with that? Edit Adding just a bit more information from various threads around this Forum. I have looked at these four 'truths' pretty closely and believe they are true. There were 19,000 Angle Ejects made in.375 Winchester. Rebound hammer came in 1981. Angle Eject started in 1983. Monte Carlo Stock was available only in 1983.
Angle Eject serial numbers started: AE 1001 to AE 19000. After 1984 Big Bore rifles serial numbered with the other Model 94's. RSY and Marlin thanks for the information. Your two rifles are pretty early production. I wonder how many were made each year? When a manufactuere tools up to make a rifle in a new caliber I wonder how much material and labor they risk? I have a picture from an auction site of a top eject Big Bore in.375 with a leather cartridge pouch over the butt stock.
Has anyone else seen one of these cartridge pouches? This one is s/n BBoo1822. Was anything of this type offered with the.307 or.356? With the new.25-35's Winchester seems to have made three pre-production batches. The first must have been quite small. A second batch was sent to Canada.
I assume this would have been larger. Then the third batch was released into the U.S. Regular production is supposed to start in July. I got all of this from a phone call to Winchester. With these rifles serialed in the regular Model 94 series we may never know many details on the quantity of each short run. Why make three short runs prior to regular production?
I understand that Marlin sometimes tests the water by announcing a new product prior to putting it into production to see how the advance orders stack up. I am looking for a picture of a Mark Twain Commemorative. Have not found one yet. Here are some early articles on the Big Bore rifles. No serial numbers mentioned by the authors. 8-1978 American Rifleman give the first announcement of the.375 Big Bore. They say it will be available in September 1978.
Retail price of the rifle is listed as $199.95 with ammo listed t $11.10. 1-1979 American Rifleman has a Dope Bag review of the.375 Big Bore rifle. 11- 1978 American Rifleman has a Model Variation announcement of the Savage Model 99 in.375.
1979 Gun Digest has the announcement of the cartridge in Gun Digest by Ken Waters. 1-79 Handloader has Ken Waters first Pet Loads article on the.375 Winchester. 6-79 American Rifleman has the announcement of the Hornady 220 grain.375 bullet. I believe the same issue of the Rifleman announces the Williams reciever sight and side mount scope base for the top eject Big Bore. 1-1980 Shooting Times has the announcement of Marlin Chambering the.375 Winchester in the M-336.
2-1980 Guns and Ammo has the announcement of the Ruger No. 3 in.375 by Craig Boddington.
4-1980 American Rifleman has a Dope Bag test of the Marlin 375 rifle. The 1981 G&A Annual has a test by Rick Hacker of the Marlin 375.
1-1983 Handloader has Ken Waters second Pet Loads article using the Savage M-99. 5-1983 The American Hunter has a test of the Ruger No. 3 in.3 The American Rifleman has the introductory test of the new Angle Eject Winchesters and the new.307 and.356 cartidges. 2-1988 G&A has a good general artical by Mike Venturino on the Marlin rifles chambered for the Big bore cartridges.
11-1989 Gil Sengel did a cartridge board report on the.375 Winchester. 9-1994 John Taffin does a Taffin Tests on the.375 in American Handgunner.
8-1996 Rocky Rabb has a test of the.375 in the TC Contender in Handloader. The 1997 Handloaders Digest has an interesting article on the Marlin.375 by Jack Wright. I would be interested in hearing about any other articles that feature the Winchester rifles. Hi William, This may be of interest.
I purchased a used BB94 XTR.375 at a local gun shop here in Alberta in the summer of 1981. It featured the straight low comb stock. The serial # was BB001123. I no longer own this rifle as accuracy was erratic to say the very least but in spite of that, it was one of my favorite guns. Groups with full power loads and the Hornady 220 Flat Point would rarely stay inside 5'. I did discover in my search for a good load that 35 grains of Olin 680 and the Speer 235 grain spitzer (one in the spout, one in the mag) would go an average of 2240 FPS, and shot into an average group of 3'.
The 220 Hornady hit 2300 FPS, but still shot poorly at about 5'. The load this rifle liked best was the old Lyman 375296, cast of wheelweights, gaschecked over 22 grains of H4227. This one would regularly go into 2' and accounted for several local whitetails and one moose.
It wore a Williams FP the entire time we were together, and I still have regrets for selling it, however it was replaced with a Marlin 1895 that shoots better than I do. Regards, Bryan. Well, the.307 is my favorite of the Big Bore rifles.
Thereare three basic models. The first has the monte carlo stock and screws for the front sight base that enter from an angle. All of these I have seen came from the factory with scope mount bases installed and with sling swivels installed. If anyone has a monte carlo Angle Eject rifle in any caliber that does not have sling swivels I would like to hear about it. The second model has the low butt stock, no safety and the front scope base screws are drilled straight into the reciever ansd they are in line with the bore.
The thrid model is the same and has the added 'benifit' of the crossbolt safety. The second and third models did not come with either sling swivels or scope bases.
All.307 and.356 Rifles have rebound hammers and hammers drilled for the Winchester hammer extension. The Winchester hammer extension is superior to the clamp on style. If you search under lever actions general, Model 84 lever actions and handloading you should come up with several threads on the cartridge. You will see I am a big fan. When you search go to the bottom of the page and cvhange the search to from the beginning. There are a few small peculiarities to loading for the cartridge that we can talk about after you have read a little. It is a fine cartridge.
I think it was Jack who showed me several times the advantage of making folders in my favorites bar. I now make folders for each caliber and add the links to these folders. I have them for the.30-30AI, 307,.444,.375 Win etc. I have them for sights and cast bullets too.
By using folders your favorites bar is manageable. Jack had to post the link to the Marlin 336 cutaway drawing from Real Guns four times before I got the hint and made a folder. I think Jack had to post the SAAMI pressure article on the Marlin 1895 three or four times for me too. I am a slow learner on this computer! The search option works well on Beartooth but you need to remember to search each possible seperate forum and change the time span bar at the bottom of the page to from the beginning.
This will get a good search. Also, when you begin seeing the same names linked to subjects, go to the members list and look up that person and check all of their posts. This will bring up things you have missed. For example, searching on Kragman 71 will get several paper patch bullet threads that do not come up in a normal search. When looking for threads on optimum lead hardness for cast bullets look for C. Harris in the members list and follow his threads.
For information on the Ackley cartridges and backthrust search under David White. QUOTE=william iorgQuote I have a question for 94 Big Bore XTR 375 Win owners. I've got one with a serial number that is prefaced with the letters BB (BB044XXX). I called Winchester (1-800-975-5237) to find out more about the serial number and managed to talk to their historian.
He claimed that records for that period were destroyed in a fire, but from memory he said my rifle was probably made in 1980. The guy seemed to know his Winchester history. My question is - how long were the serial numbers prefaced with 'BB'? The Big Bores were introduced in 1978 and made unchanged until 1983 when the '94 XTR Angle Eject' was introduced. I'm guessing that the BB was dropped with the AE Big Bore models, but it's just a guess. Any info you may have about the BB numbers would be appreciated.
Quote: Timber, I hijacked your post to start this off. Somwhere on this forum there is a thread by someone who was trying to start a data base of known Big Bore serial numbers and configuration. Seems like a good idea to me. Was this Robert Anderson? Any way, my top eject 375 is s/n BB 040141 just to start things off! I have encountered BB016725, BB020698, BB035884, BB041567, BB043XXX at various auctions and in various postings. These are all top eject low comb stocks.
An unusual configuration that has been reported but I have not seen pictures to verify is a angle eject s/n AE16XXX that is not drilled and tapped for a scope mount. This rifle is a.375. I would like to know the approximate s/n range where the monte carlo stock stopped. My.307 is a pre-safety low stock model, its s/n is 5588015. I think this rifle is pretty early in the low stock - pre-safety group but have no way to prove it.
If you feel better giving just the first three s/n's thats fine, it gets us close to the series. I would like to hear about an angle eject that is a post AE prefix low stock pre-safety with a lower serial than mine. Just to get a rough s/n range. Whoever was trying to develop the data base - how are you coming with that?
Edit Adding just a bit more information from various threads around this Forum. I have looked at these four 'truths' pretty closely and believe they are true. There were 19,000 Angle Ejects made in.375 Winchester. Rebound hammer came in 1981.
Angle Eject started in 1983. Monte Carlo Stock was available only in 1983. Angle Eject serial numbers started: AE 1001 to AE 19000. After 1984 Big Bore rifles serial numbered with the other Model 94's.
Slim: Thanks for taking this thread and running with it. Since my original post I picked up a 307, AE 125XX. It's an '83 version with the monte carlo stock, factory installed steel weaver style scope bases, swivel studs and a non-rebounding hammer. Unfortunately, the previous owner removed the clamp-on hammer extension, sight hood and swivels. Minor stuff that can be replaced.
I agree with your research and 'truths', except the one about rebounding hammers. The 'New Improved Trigger Mechanism', with rebound hammer, was announced in the 1985 Winchester catalog. So I'm guessing they were added in late '84 production. On another subject, I noticed in the picture you posted of the BB 375 with a leather cartridge pouch, that the forearm is the long style. Was this a normal production item at some time? Both my top eject BB 375 and 307 have the shorter version. My Timber carbine has the long version however.
quote IAny way, my top eject 375 is s/n BB 040141 just to start things off! I have encountered BB016725, BB020698, BB035884, BB041567, BB043XXX at various auctions and in various postings. These are all top eject low comb stocks. An unusual configuration that has been reported but I have not seen pictures to verify is a angle eject s/n AE16XXX that is not drilled and tapped for a scope mount.
This rifle is a.375. I would like to know the approximate s/n range where the monte carlo stock stopped. My.307 is a pre-safety low stock model, its s/n is 5588015. I think this rifle is pretty early in the low stock - pre-safety group but have no way to prove it. If you feel better giving just the first three s/n's thats fine, it gets us close to the series. I would like to hear about an angle eject that is a post AE prefix low stock pre-safety with a lower serial than mine. Just to get a rough s/n range.
Whoever was trying to develop the data base - how are you coming with that? unquote Slim Slim, I was rereading the posts on this thread and realized I can probably date your 94AE 307.
I have a M 94AE XTR in 30-30, SN 5516028. I wanted to find out when it was manufactured, so I called Winchester's service department and they told me it was manufactured in 1988. Your 307 was numbered 71,987 Model 94's later, making it either a 1988 or 1989. According to my Winchester catalogs, in 1988 the Big Bores were still called 'XTR'. In the 1989 catalog they were refered to as 'Walnut Big Bore', and the XTR was not mentioned.
Also, both the '88 and'89 catalogs showed a post front sight. In the 1990 catalog the Big Bores sported a hooded ramped front sight and a set screw was added to the link pin, just like the pre '64s had. If your's was made in '88, I thing it would have 'XTR' stamped in the barrel. I hope this helps. Timber Black Tuesday, 1-16-06, is like 9-11 to Model 94 fans.
Wow.how did I miss this thread. Here is a list of Ser. #'s we put together over on Leverguns. The one made in 1992 is mine.probably one of the first with the crossbolt.
I wish we had dates for the early BB ser #'s. Let me know if any of them are yours and I will update with the approximate year of manufacture.
Note: final 3 numbers left off. Winchester Big Bores (MC=Monte Carlo Low=Low profile stock) S/N Stock Caliber Action Safety BB001xxx low.375 Top No BB004xxx low.375 Top No BB0090XX 375 top made in 1979 BB011xxx low.375 Top No BB016xxx low.375 Top No BB020xxx low.375 Top No BB035xxx low.375 Top No BB035xxx low.375 Top No BB036xxx?.375 Top No 1981? XTR BB037xxx low.375 Top No BB040xxx low.375 Top No BB041xxx low.375 Top No BB043xxx low.375 Top No BB044xxx low.375 Top No BB0445XX 375 top made in 1980 BB045xxx low.375 Top No BB051231?.375?? AE11xxx MC.307 Angle No RockIslandAuction AE12xxx MC.356 Angle No RockIslandAuction AE125XX 307 MC made in 1984 AE135XX MC.356 Angle No AE16xxx MC.375 Angle No RockIslandAuction AE16xxx MC.375 Angle No Not drilled for scope mount-transition gun?
AE160xx MC.307 Angle No AE18xXX MC.307 Angle No AE19xxx MC.307 Angle No AE230xx MC 375 Angle No made 1985 Mark Twain Commemorative 5588xxx low.307 Angle No 5624xxxlow.356 Angle No 6029xxx low.356 Angle Yes ( bought new around Mar. 1992) 605xxxx low.356 Angle Yes 6214xxx low.356 Angle Yes 6279xxxA low.356 Angle Yes.
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